Your restraint is noticed and appreciated.

AMEN Phil....

closed minds should come with closed mouths.

I totally agree. The Catholic church has it's own laws. When others disagreed, they left the Catholic church and started their own churches; ie: Lutheran, Methodist, etc. It is okay to believe differently than me. It is not okay to change the church or scouting organization that I believe in and belong to, to fit your needs. If you don't like what BSA stands for, go somewhere else and start your own organization. I don't force my lifestyle on you.....do not force your lifestyle on me. I am so tired of people being berated for standing up for their God given right to live the life they choose without persecution. I support the core beliefs in BSA's laws. I support gay rights for those of that orientation. I do not support bullies forcing me to change my organization.

I hate to tell you there are Scout Masters out there doing things to your boys, you hear about it ,and what about your school teachers (STRIGHT) having sex with their students. You should be more concern with what going on then with what you think might go on.

What are you afraid of Phil Cooper..are you one hiding in the closet apparently? Do you think all they think about is sex? Get a life idiot. Even your facts are wrong. Some people should shut there mouth until they know what they are talking about. The Scouts give all boys structure and worth and life lessons. Just because a kid is gay has nothing to deprived him of this. I would be more afraid of some straight leader trying to molest one of the kids...which is the problem that has been happening..but blame the gay guy as usual. check out the history of who is molesting who..it's the straight guy molesting the boy. DIRTY OLD MEN..

Less than 1% of the population?? Oh my goodness, sir, your head is truly in the sand! 4.6% of the population right here in FL identify as homosexual, with Orlando being the 10th top city in the country! And these %'s account only for those that are actually 'out'. According to the Gallup Poll 54% of the nations population consider gay or lesbian relations morally acceptable (and growing yearly). There are many more incidents of improper behavior among priests and straight men than among the gay male population (look it up). A gay BS leader is no more threatening to a child than your priest or your straight leader ... and probably less so.

You should be embarrassed by your ignorance and homophobia. It is estimated that homosexuals make up at least 10% of the population. The reason many of them hide their sexual orientation is because they fear coming out due to the hatred coming from people like you. My wife and I have numerous gay friends who are just like everybody else. They own houses, pay taxes, enjoy many of the same things that we do, and they are committed to each other. Who are you to judge other people? You should just go crawl back into your cave and stop typing ridicilous comments about gay people on the Patch.

I see little difference between those who want to make gay children feel inferior by exclusion than the a** wipes from Westboro baptist freaks protesting at our dead troops funerals. You are two peas in a pod. If you are scared of what a 12 year old gay child will do to your straight son you are a real bigiot.

Arthur Eldridge: You are a sick demented individual if you believe pedophiles are 'straight men'. They are a plague on our society and to call it a disease rather than what it is, a pervasion, makes you as bad as them. One also has to look at the larger picture in all this, who has the greater proclivity to abuse some one of the same sex, stright or homosexual?

@Roy K. McGinnis do the Googling yourself, and you will find that 99% of all child molesters are in fact straight. Stop preaching lies would you.

Roy K. McGinnis you are uninformed and must be a complete moron and a drunk. Do you actually know how to read? Or then again you must be one of the child molesters and or a Catholic Priest. Check the FACTS IDIOT.

Arthur Eldridge: To the dear born people of this country, including you Arthur, a little more thought before you blow up and insult people on a thread like this is just plain foolish. I can give you 96 very good reasons why, and I think you catch my drift. Be nice, control yourself and think before answering like that again.

Or here's another idea. How about the small minded bigoted start an organization for those who want their sons to also be small minded bigoted adults. Here's a news flash Phil, there have been gays in the scouts both as leaders and members, in churches, the military and GASP! Heterosexual marriages.
Keep in mind the old saying " those that protest the loudest often have the most to hide"

I agree 100%, Phil. "Freedom of association" is a right, explicitly provided for in the U.S. Constitution. And, I can personally attest, homosexuals are and have been drawn to become adult 'leaders' in the Boys Scouts since its inception, seeing it as fertile ground for easy prey. When I was a Boy Scout (back in the '60s) enjoying immensely the activities and values promulgated by this terrific organization, no less than two of these predators were found out while trying to insinuate themselves into my troop, one of whom propositioned my best friend. Once discovered, these dissolute reprobates were appropriately taken away, never to be heard from again.
Let the Boy Scouts continue to adhere to their principles, including being "physically strong and morally straight", as well as "trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, clean, brave, and reverent." AMEN!
Others can, and SHOULD, form their own group.

Well said and respectfully so.

Another closed mind.

I agree! The gay community will do what they can to get into all organizations to numb peoples minds on whats right and wrong. They want to be accepted as homosexual is natural. Sorry, it is sin. God didn't make them like that. Its a choice. It is not good for that kind of influence to hit our children when they are trying to figure life out. going through adolescence and puberty. They have been working through television, movies and government for 50 years. Truth is truth. Not necessarily politically correct.

Darryl Aiken,
Truth maybe Truth, but it doesn't make them facts. There is no scientific fact that proofs one way or the other in human species. Until their are facts, then there is no definitive proof it is a choice or natural. But being that homosexuality is seen in almost all species in nature, which is scientific fact. So what you are really saying Darryl is that in your opinion it is a choice.

News Flash --You son goes to school as we speak with other gay children and you can count on the fact he don`t care. The gay child is just his friend and all he will do is look at you and ask why can`t I be friends with ______?

Exactly. Well Said Harvey

Michael D.
Some people don't believe in God. Personally I know for a fact God is real. I believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe the bible to be truth.

I SEE A LOT OF ANGER IN THESE POST. GAY OR STRAIGHT , LIVE YOUR LIFE. ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE, NOT ME. WHY DO WE NOT HAVE GIRLS AND BOYS AGE 11-17 IN THE SAME GROUPS? SCOUTS CAMP OUT AND DO OTHER THINGS, LIKE GROUP SHOWERS ( LIKE HIGH SCHOOL). I LIKE WOMEN, SHOULD I BE ABLE TO CAMP OUT OR SHOWER WITH THEM. I DON'T BELIEVE IT WOULD BE FAIR TO FORCE STRAIGHT BOYS TO BE IN POSITIONS THAT WE WOULD NOT CONDONE FOR BOYS AND GIRLS. BEING A TEENAGER IS TUFF ENOUGH.

Darryl,
You have every reason to believe it is in your opinion truth. Doesn't make it fact. Facts are without dispute, and in your very statement you show their is dispute.

I think everyone wants the best for all children. So they can grow be all they can be. Does any one remember this. " I promise to do my best to do my duty to God and my country" I beleive that includes Gods word. I don't want my son to be deceived into beleiving that homosexuality is natural and not a sin. Its not that we don't care about people. I beleive the homosexual community would like to change the minds of our children and promote homosexuality in there lives. I will be praying for the Cub and Boy scouts to stand strong. I will also pray for the people in the Gay community.

Well said Harvey! But, of course it matters not to the liberal idiots....if you can be like them, then you should be victimized and alienated! That is rule number one from the liberal playbook....Need a lesson on how that works? Just listen to any Obama speech, he is king of alienation....Don't like him? You must a be a racist! Want to own a gun? Must be a bubba redneck filled with hate! on and on it goes.....

Ages ago, as a child, I was a member of the Boy Scouts. In thinking back I would suggest that the Troop I was a member of was reflective of the thinking of members parents. At that time the very concept of a black being a member of our troop was inconceivable. I look at the comments tossed about today and think back to the bigotry.

What is moral about excluding people because of the way they were born?

Disagree respectively, you have missed the point that the "Scouts" are a Christian based organization, so homosexuality is in direct conflict to the morals of such. It will be a distraction from the core. The homosexual movement should create their own organization and stop trying to infiltrate another and force their intolerance upon such group.

Joseph, they do have them, but it's more "don't ask, don't tell" at the moment.

Kadius, the many Hindu & Jewish (and Muslim, etc) scouts would like to have a word with you about them being "Christian based". If you're going to respectively [sic] disagree, at least have your facts straight.

Sorry Joe.....The "normal" (sorry but true) citizens have a few rights left and one of them is the right not to be "brainwashed" into believing that a deviant lifestyle such as homosexuality is normal. I don't have a problem with gays if you feel that's your thing....but I, and my kids, deserve to live life as we wish also.....that's the main thing that's causing gays to have such a bad rap. There have always been gays and I wish them no harm.....just don't force this lifestyle on the public as "normalcy" and especially no mess with our children's intitutions.

I totally agree. Glad to see you you know the facts that are taught to ALL boys.

Ba ha ha....So you think the Boy Scouts can fix gay boys? I that what you are saying? Cause that is what I am hearing.....does that mean they a broken and need fixing? Yea, I know I kinda of twisted your words, but, I find the subject silly.....Boys should be in BOY SCOUTS, GIRLS can be in the BROWNIES! Simple....you think you are girl? Now you know where you can go!

I do not agree but looking from a slanted view see your point, most homosexual men do not want a boy, in any way, they are attracted to men, typically around their own age. Your point brings to light that men or women who pray on children are perverted in the worse kind of way. Men or women who do this were typically abused themselves or have a true mental condition or a combination of both.

It's simple, the very small minority of the population that is GLBT are trying to cram their lifestyles down our throats so that they can justify their abberant behavior as being "normal" in some way. When is the last time you saw a Straight Pride" parade or other "Straight Pride" event? If we had such a thing the GLBT community and the liberal media would go through the roof.
Another thing that infuriates me are the claims by the GLBT community that pedophiles are not homosexuals. If you have sex with a minor of the opposite sex from yourself than you are a child molester. If you have sex with a minor of the same sex as yourself than you are both a child molester AND a homosexual. There is no getting around that, it's simply the truth.
Gays also always try to portray persons that disagree with their lifestyle as religious "fanatics." This isn't the case either. I am not religious in the least but yet I find the GLBT lifestyle to be abhorrant, Why? because humans, or any animal for that matter, did not evolve to have sex with members of the same sex. Such behavior actually results in a dead end where evolution is concerned because two creatures of the same sex, with some exceptions in lower classes of animals, cannot reproduce. I also just find the idea of having sex with another man to be disgusting, as do most men.

When will you learn to read the facts... it is not a choice to be gay or straight. It is in your genes. Why do you think so many kids commit suicide? Just because a kid is Gay why should he be denied any life learning lessons? He's not promoting his way of life, he just wants to learn. GET A CLUE.

A gay scout leader is not forcing his beliefs on anyone! He is a BS leader to instill the ways of the BS to his charges! And there are many Christian religions that accept homosexuality in their folds (ie, Episcopalians, Methodists, etc). Homosexuality is not a choice anymore than heterosexuality is a choice. If it truly is a choice ... tell me, when did you choose to be heterosexual? At what age did you recognize and accept it? No one is forcing you to accept anything ... rather, simply accepting reality and accepting that equality is a right of ALL people. And as is true with ALL people, there are some bad apples. Those bad apples, straight or gay, black or white, Christian or Jewish, need to be weeded out before they become scout leaders, teachers, priests, coaches, etc. Bigotry only continues to cripple this country from catching up with the rest of the world.

Arthur Eldridge...do you have a link to any peer reviewed study that says being gay is genetic?

CaptBlackEagle No I did not think to save the link. If you do a search you may find one of many possibly.

CaptBlackEagle Then again you can't believe everything you read. Either way all should be treated fairly and equally.

The focus must remain on what the known Scouting values are, standing on them as has been done for over 100 years. Scouting has held the line and because of so we have had scores and scores of hero's, elected officials and great Dad's that have roots Scouting. Holding the line is holding the line, any immoral activity is immoral and should remain so such as the charter states.

Thank you ..you hit the nail right on the head.

To directly reply to the ill written column and obvious bias in favor of lifting the ban I offer this;

The Scouts are a Nationally recognized group and are not to be surveyed by a cities opinion, but rather by the whole. Stating what Chicago believes is a travesty to good journalism. Chicago is a highly liberal city with high murder, corruption and so on, these are facts. Why not ask what the folks in Birmingham, Alabama believe, we all know, an overwhelming view is "No Way Do Not Sway". Surveys are like sand on the shores, if done properly an overview of the population is taken into account, you did not. Sadly you inability to show a neutral point in an effort to form sincere dialogue has failed, clearly you can see the overwhelming amount of folks who disagree with your approach and method. I could do your job and mine, both more effectively than you do the one.

By stating so you show you are closed minded as well. Do you believe one persons comment above states what the whole believes? If so you have shown yourself to be shallow, your son will be raised likewise, respect is an equal thing, you should respect the Scouts as being what they are and what they believe, try that on for a moment.

Adios!

As a former Boy Scout I learned camaraderie the scout oathe and many worth while life long values. Forcing an organization to accept a different code of ethics do not work. I agree let homosexuals have their own organizations. Leave the Scouts alone. I pity your son, you will only confuse him more. You obviously don't understand the Scouts.

Rachel, yeah I do, shallow is too nice a word.

Thank you...I agree...

@ guillermo (sic)- Did you really say "jungle music" with the same mouth used to quote Paul? Does the incongruety of that not speak volumes to, and about, YOU?

yep, he said "Jungle Music" alright. Now what can make people think these people are racist? Go figure.
It isn't a conspiracy to "destroy" America. It's a movement to free America from the likes of your oppressive pushing of your morals on everyone else.
Who is behind it? It must be that Socialist Rat Bastard Barack Hussain Dahmer Hitler Obama. That Kenyan F#ck .

The world was a wonderful place before Christianity? Really? Do you mean as in death in the Roman arenas? Human sacrifice throughout the world? Rampant open homosexuality in the Greek and Roman civilizations? Oh, wait a minute, I see where you're coming from now.

Harvey,
So if we are going to be historically accurate, then event likes The Slave Trade, the Holocaust (Nazi used Scripture from the Bible as the reasoning), Dropping of the Hydrogen Bomb, Genocide of the Native Americans (mostly due to disease), The Crusades (and tortures that were caused), Salam Witch Trials/Executions (women who can swim can't be Christian), Klu Klux Klan (Christian Organization),General Laurent Nkunda and his rebels of Christ (raping and masscaring in the Congo) etc... were all due to the inclusion of Christianity right? Because that is the agrument you are making. If you are going to claim atrocities on one side, don't forget the atrocities made on the other.

History is a stubborn thing. It’s amazing what you find when you choose to look for it rather than ignoring it or creating your own.

The Boy Scouts began in 1908 in Britain, where Lieutenant-General Sir Robert Baden-Powell, a hero of the Boer Wars, founded the international organization.
The Boy Scouts of America was founded in 1910, as a copy of the British model.
Baden-Powell wrote in a pamphlet "Scouting & Christianity" (1917): "Scouting is nothing less than applied Christianity." (Religion and the Boy Scout and Girl Guides Movement--an address, 1926).

"....We aim for the practice of Christianity in their everyday life and dealings, and not merely the profession of theology on Sundays.... There is a vast reserve of loyal patriotism and Christian spirit lying dormant in our nation today, mainly because it sees no direct opportunity for expressing itself. Here in this joyous brotherhood there is a vast opportunity open to all in a happy work that shows the results under your hands and a work that is worth while because it gives every man his chance of service for his fellow-men and for God." - (Scouting For Boys, 1908)

Of course Christians are not going to exclude non-believers, that’s what Christianity is all about, loving others and living as an example. To ignore the Christian founding of this organization and to say that scouting has nothing to do with Christ is simply ignoring the facts of history.

Steve,
"Of course Christians are not going to exclude non-believers, that’s what Christianity is all about, loving others and living as an example. To ignore the Christian founding of this organization and to say that scouting has nothing to do with Christ is simply ignoring the facts of history."

Doesn't this controdict you earlier agrument about this having a reason to exclude the people who are homosexual. If you believe it is a choice, then why not provide the example of what you believe is correct?

It is also ignoring the facts of history of all the atrocities that were due to Christianity. If you do not believe us we will kill you? Inquisition, Crusades, etc... So those beliefs are not always a part of the history of Christianity.
As you say History is a Stubborn thing.

As I have stated earlier, the BSA are a private organization so they can include who they want and exclude who they want. Just like they do not allow females. But lets not make fake reasons behind it. It's an uncomfortable conversation for some, which was in their research, and they don't want to loose corporate sponsorship. Let us stop pretending it is it is anything more than a business decision. Because their was no reason to change their previous course of action.

Michael, (I don’t know how to get this below your reply)
I’m having difficulty seeing the logic of your argument; and I see no contradiction in what I have stated. Being attracted to the same sex is not a choice, I understand that. Deciding to live a gay lifestyle however is indeed a choice. I have a couple friends and a cousin that deal with these same-sex attractions, one has chosen to live a gay lifestyle and has divorced his wife to live with another man, the other two have chosen to remain married to their wives and to honor their commitments to remain faithful to them. All three are long stories that I can’t get into here; point is, I’m not living a life totally detached from these real life situations.

Your 1st paragraph - The BSA is not excluding gay people now; they’re just expected to keep their sexuality to themselves, as they should. Gays have stated that they want to be involved in all the activities that Scouts typically pursue, and they can; as long as they keep their mouth shut about being gay, just like we did with the DADT. Therefore the Scouts are ALREADY being the example to men and boys with SSA of what is means to live a heterosexual life as God intended.

2nd paragraph – the subject is not the history of Christianity, but rather what the Bible says about life, so I will skip this.

Michael cont.
3rd paragraph – I agree with you here, but BSA board members like Randall Stephenson, president of AT&T seem to think otherwise. He makes the leap that since his company has a non-discrimination policy, which I agree with, that the BSA likewise should not discriminate and allow “gay boys” (a term I disagree with) to sleep in my son’s tent. Sorry, there is simply no comparison. AT&T says you can’t be fired for being gay, and I agree, but that’s not the same thing as requiring a heterosexual employee to share a hotel room while traveling with a gay man.

Mr. Stephenson seems unable to make that distinction, therefore I have chosen to do what the gay community has a hard time doing, and that is take my business elsewhere. I’m cancelling my family plan with AT&T this week and going to Sprint

Steve,
The first paragraph which contridicts the agrument is where you reference that Christians are not going to exclude non-believers. What we are discussing that the new policy is about exclusion. I understand the fears, but it is a contridiction.

The history is in regards to your comments about Chritianity being about loving and living as an example. Which goes against it's history. The Bible the document is different fron Christianity. Christianity is a religion that has been used by powerful men in our history to kill other people. Just like Muslims as a whole are naturally peaceful, but the teaches have been used to kill people as well. So if you statement is that the new Testiment is about peace, etc.. I agree.

The third paragraph is all about business, and I believe we agree. It comes down to a business decision.

What you’re noting is not a contradiction, though it may appear that way to you. The Christian faith reaches out to ALL the lost, no matter where they are, to bring them to salvation – which is the primary message of the New Testament.

Regarding your understanding of the principle of inclusion; that would not mean allowing practicing homosexuals to worship in church on a regular basis. Could they visit? Of course they could; can they attend on a regular basis? Not without first recognizing their sinfulness and turning from it. I choose to accept the Bible as the word of the one true God; and His Word clearly states;

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, … will inherit the kingdom of God. >>And such were some of you.<< But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior. If we deny our sin then the truth is not in us. If we continue in our sin and refuse to repent, then the church would be justified in refusing such participation in worship until we did so.

Likewise, as a private organization founded on Christian principles, it’s no different with the Scouts. They can refuse those who reject their standards without being justly accused of practicing “exclusion”.

When did the BOY Scouts start selling cookies?

Cookies, were easier to type out then chocolate covered popcorn, and a lot cheaper to.

It is 2013 and I have been transported to the forum for bigotry and ignorance. I am appalled by the sheer stupidity of thes anti GLBT remarks. To all you alleged "Christians," if your Lord and Savior were here on this post he would tell you "Judge not." Shame on you!! What kind of organization today bans acceptance by all? The Klan and Neo Nazi groups ban people of color, Catholics, and Jews. Oh, yes, The Boy Scouts of AMERICA. I feel so sorry for you lovers of bigotry and hatred.
@ Dan Pressler-Didn't Hitler consider himself a "Christian"?

Read this and grow up a bit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-levay/the-paradox-of-gay-genes_b_1929641.html

http://www.salon.com/2010/10/24/simon_levay_gay_brain/

Dan,
Technically she is correct. Because a majority of the wars since 33 CE have been due to a slanted view of Christianity. So if you combine all the known wars historically speaking, the death toll wars verse Christianity. Christianity wins. Now I beleive any tyrant will use any religion to his advantage to create a following. So those you listed killed a lot of people over their about 80 years, but no where close to the deaths that have happened over the 1979 years of Christianity's existance.

Actually Martha is right in her assessment of the Christian religion, especially the Catholic branch. Every historical event she quotes is true. Were these people "true" Christians? Hardly. Most of these events occurred because of MONEY and were hidden behind religion. Some of the Popes have been some of the most corrupt people on the face of the earth. Then again, apparently the Vatican promotes and supports homosexuality since they don't seem to do much regards the pedophiles and homosexuals in their midst and their policy towards the marriage of priests and nuns promotes homosexuality. (This hasn't always been the case. Historically priests, and even the pope, have been allowed to marry.)

Agreed

Read the post above you that correctly explains how the Scouts are NOT Christian.

Honestly, they've been mostly taken over by the LDS. This still doesn't make them a Christian organization.

"Tolerance of others is one of the keys to happiness." The real voice of reason on this post, Sir.

couldn't have said it better. Kudos to you.

One question, if you're finished bashing the Christians, How do the Muslims deal with the homosexual issue?

thanks Haborite!

Barbara W. Hugg
8:16 pm on Friday, February 8, 2013

Thank you so much Harborite. What I've seen here has scared the tar out of me. I am shocked and appalled at what I've read here, and I can't even put into words how this makes me feel.

I guess I must be naive to think that the LGBT community had made strides in the recent years. However, reading this makes me realize how many people are still so narrow minded, bigoted,prejudiced and just plain clueless.

I'll be nice and leave it at this, unlike many of you that are spewing hatred.

Once last thought, if you don't like gays, tell straight people to stop having gay babies...

@ Harborite- Bravo!

Excellent Barbara Hugg ... you actually took the words right out of my keyboard:

If you don't like gays, tell straight people to stop having gay babies!!! Also, watch this video from someone who truly knows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ

homosexuality is not a "behavior". Its also very nice they way your referred to homosexuals in the same regard as pedophiles..BIG DIFFERENCE. I hate narrow minded bigotry. Dont bother wasting your time replying, I wont be wasting anymore of my time reading hateful delusional crap

As a former Cub Scout and Boy Scout and a GAY men , everything i learned about Homosexuality, I learned in the SCOUTS.

Well said Dan.

As a former Cub Scout and Boy Scout and a GAY men , everything i learned about Homosexuality, I learned in the SCOUTS.

Because, as usual, the bitches are going to throw a hissy fit about everything that they can to compensate for the fact that they are perverts and know it. You haven't seen any Straight Pride activities lately have you? The squeaky wheel gets the grease (or maybe KY Jelly in this case?)

Uh... thinking about that - Gasperilla? How many people were arrested? That would probably constitute as your Straight Pride Parade.

Adam writes “Please note, there is no direct correlation to gay men and pedophilia. MOVE ON... with that ridiculousness - Pedophilia is classified as a mental condition. Your comments are ridiculous if you think otherwise.”

Roy K. McGinnis said it well; “One also has to look at the larger picture in all this, who has the greater proclivity to abuse someone of the same sex, straight or homosexual?”

If a man has a desire to be sexual with another man, regardless of age, he at least has what is known as same-gender sexual attraction, or “same-sex attraction”, even if he has chosen to marry a woman. For many, it is this same-gender attraction that lead many to conclude that they are homosexual, and they go on to live “gay” lives. A man can choose to act upon this desire or not with another man, but if a man fears approaching another man and instead chooses a young boy to act out his fantasies, he has selfishly allowed is temptations to steal the innocence of another man, who currently happens to be living through is childhood years. As everyone knows, this abuse can have a profoundly negative impact on this boy’s life as he matures into manhood.

There is definitely a direct correlation between same-gender sexual attraction and the sexual abuse of young boys – and this is what all Fathers want to control and hopefully eliminate within the BSA. Allowing gay troop leaders is most definitely a step in the wrong direction.

Thinking the same thing Paul...

Good comment, Paul Ray!

Prohibition of non-citizens from voting isn't discriminatory exclusion. The organizations you mention are discriminatory in their practices. Laviticus wasn't God. Besides, what does the opinion of someone who lived in a different world 2,000 years ago make? You people all think the bible is the word of God, written by God through the hand of man. That's insane.
Your religious leaders are selling you their product.
Do you want to buy any swamp land, or snake oil?
Your morals are just an agenda that you twist God to justify.
You can be as bigoted as you want to be. Do it in the name of Heaven & you can justify it in the end.

@Dan Pressler therein lies your conundum. If Gays are born that way that then it violates what you believe to be the holy unchanging word of God. However, three points you are missing, 1) The unchaging word of God is what God himself spoke not what scribes translated and inserted their own beliefs 2) Jesus did not himself speak out against homosexuals 3) Jesus came to replace the Old Laws (esp Leviticus as it was the book of law). Stop being so close minded and listen to the Holy Spirit and you might be surprised.

@Paul Ray - 1) you are assuming something you can not prove - your faith says the bible is wrong. mine says it is true. 2) neither did Jesus endorse homosexuality. 3) he did not come to remove the law but to fulfill it so we would not suffer eternally for sinning - he forgave people their sin then told them to 'go & sin no more' which would mean to me that their behavior was still sinful but, provided the accept Jesus as their savior, without eternal consequences.

@ Dan Pressler- Sir, the BSA are a discriminatory organization and as such should be granted zero public funding. Discrimination in not an American value. You are not the judge of "sin." I assure you, Sir, that your creator, standing beside you, would abhor your bigotted and homophobic comments, as HE created ALL in his own image.

promoting good morals based on good behavior is not hate. The racism of the Scoutings' early years was wrong as it was not based on behavior. BSA is a private organization & can reasonably expect its members to behave in certain ways to retain membership. Homosexuality can not be purely genetic as it is not a biological survival trait - if it was only biologic/genetic it would have died out millenia ago.

They aren't promoting "good morals". They are promoting exclusionary morals. They would be promoting good morals if they expelled members for homosexual activity, but they aren't doing that. They are banning a group of people because they don't like them, even if they haven't had homosexual activity while being in uniform. The Christian Right always calls their exclusion 'morals'. Sometimes it is just small minded pushing their fake morals on everybody else.
Why a kid would want to be a boy scout is beyond me. As a child I was a boy scout for about a month & never went back. It was too regimented & militaristic for my taste & it was flat out boring. I guess I wasn't that type, as I grew up to be a hippie that hated militarism, & regimentation, finding it unnatural.

@Dan Pressler are you really serious? What about the love afair between David and Johnathan? No condemnation was applied. Being Gay has been proven in studies reviewing hypothalamus, studies reviewing twins raised together etc.
Stop holding onto mistruths to justify your fear.

@Paul Ray. Are you serious? Being gay has not been proven to be natural. But being gay not being gay has nothing to do with the original statement. Does a private group have the right to make its own rules? Yes it does.

As for those who condemn those of us who believe the opposite of you as being hateful, you might want to reassess what hateful means. At no point does my religion express the causing of harm to anyone...I tolerate the existence of those who live deviant lifestyles, so long as those lifestyles do not violate the freedom of others. I do not accept that your lifestyle choice is moral..or natural. You will need to learn to tolerate my views.

@CaptBlackEagle For once try reading or watching something other than things to are leaning towards your blindered view points. Here is one for you.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

Please remind me to steer clear of Lutz and the likes of these people. They are frightening, prob have a room full of guns amd ammo! Wow, I have never seen such hate and they say it is their Christian beliefs? Serious, you people need some serious therapy when you think Jesus's beliefs begets hate.

@Paul Ray. National Geographic? Since when are they a medical research group? It has not been proven genetic. Ever.

Enjoy your saturday...the weather is awesome. I will be taking some pictures of the community.

CaptBlackEagle: You're right, it is not genetic, it is epigenetic and formed in the mothers womb. These sex-specific epi-marks are seen in the DNA and can be passed down from father to daughter and mother to son. But that really isn't the point here. If the thinking and beliefs that are reflected in these comments held true over the decades, there would be no rights for African Americans that was attained thru the Civil Rights movement, women would not be allowed to vote, there would be no Title IX of the Educational Amendments, and so on. This country would still be as backward as many third world nations. Every minority has evolved and earned what was rightfully due them right from the start. This will evolve for the LGBT community as well. It would serve all of us well to start accepting ALL people the same way we did African Americans, women's right to vote and girls in boys' sports! It will become a reality as all polls indicate now. Education, if you choose, will help that acceptance.

@Dan Pressler - May I also quote for you yet another pertaining directly to your comment? Matthew 7:5 New International Version (©1984)
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Wow, I love people who quote the bible and yet know nothing of the other things.
1 Samuel 18:1,3

"And it came to pass, when he [David] had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul . . . And Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul."

And immediately afterward, Jonathan disrobed before David:
I have read it cover to cover 3 times, try it for yourself.

From your hate filled rantings you have serious mental health issues. Seek help.

Contrary to your claim, God did not condemn homosexuality. People like you just cherry-pick Old Testament passages from the Book of Leviticus that predate Jesus by about 1,500 years. Jesus never once condemned homosexuality. Jesus intentionally moved Christianity away from strict adherence to the earlier Judaic codes and laws of the Old Testament. Old laws like "An eye for an eye" were replaced with "Turn the other cheek". One of Jesus' main commandments to the people was to "Love your neighbor as yourself." You appear to feel morally superior to gays and you even judge them by calling them "sinners". Maybe you need to read the Gospels again. Jesus said "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged." I am really tired of hearing people like you trying to justify your homophobia by stating that you are following your Christian beliefs. You are not actually following Christ's teachings at all. Jesus did not condemn gays or homosexuality. Jesus taught love, acceptance, and compassion for all people.

I draw the line at bigots that justify their exclusions behind twisted concepts of what they choose to interpret as the word of God to fit their perverted agenda. Yes, I consider the exclusionary bigots to be those whose entire view of life is perverted. I don't mean sexual perversion. I mean morally perverted. Right & wrong you ask? It is right for all people to live in harmony & it is wrong to discriminate against any group for no reason except small minded ignorance. If you want logic & truth, I refer you to the video I posted earlier. I can't match the brilliance of insight & flawless argument put forth by that person. Since Religious bigotry & fake morals associated with it are the justifications for your hate born of fear. You fear your kids may lose your bigotry if they experience diversity.They may grow up to be non-exclusionary. Christian 'morals' are like the Talaban in their hate filled ignorance

then they need to realize there will always be people who do not feel it is bigoted to condemn what they feel is wrong & immoral. being a Christian does not mean being a bigot it means believing that Jesus died for our sins so we do not spend eternity in hell. being homosexually active is a sin & accepting sin as right condemns us to hell for leading others to believe a sin is the right way to live. Are we perfect - by no means. are we hypocrites - frequently. Do we change our beliefs just because someone does not like them - not unless we are convicted by scripture that they are wrong.
If someone wants to join scouts they need to accept what they teach & if they do not like it find someplace that accepts them as they are. Expecting scouts to change because a homosexual wants to join would be like expecting PFLAG to change to condemn homosexuality because someone who thinks it is wrong to be homosexual wants to join them

Dan Presler wants to convince himself that it is Christian to fight what he decides is immoral. The fact that his mentor, Christ, never said it's immoral is of no significance. Giving it significance makes his entire viewpoint a manufactured excuse to support what he doesn't approve of.

as for jesus crucified for our sins.

I don't believe that God condemned mankind for something that happened before we were born & considered us guilty of something we had no part in. I also don't believe that God is a bloodthirsty SOB that would demand a blood sacrifice for something that he could have just forgiven if he was a merciful God. I also don't believe it was such a sacrifice if he knew he wasn't facing death & that he would suffer for a few hours & then rise to be the Prince of Heaven for all eternity. It doesn't seem like he sacrificed anything. If you or I were crucified, it would be torture. He knew his reward would be to throw God off his thrown & become the Lord. That's not what happened, but that's how you people act like Jesus IS God. What happened to the importance of God the FATHER?
Jesus was executed because he was too powerful in his challenge to the Religious Right of his time & they wanted to eliminate his power when they saw he held the multitudes in the palm of his hand at the sermon on the mount.

Michael, you are grossly inaccurate in your post above. Christ did die on our behalf as a "supreme sacrifice" - it was all a part of the Creators divine plan since the beginning of time. The people who are wrong here are not those on either side of this issue, because each side is passionate about what they believe in, though I firmly disagree with the pro-homosexual side of attempting to force themselves into the BSA; but it is the one who claims to be "Christian", and yet also believes themselves to be gay and lives this “lifestyle”. It is not sinful to have the temptation to be sexual with the same sex, but it is sinful to act upon it. You cannot be Christian and live an actively homosexual life; the sincere Christian does not have that option; for God says; "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.” Romans 6: 16-18

As a former Cub Scout and Boy Scout and a GAY men , everything i learned about Homosexuality, I learned in the SCOUTS.

Stephen J. Mccracken also commented on Boy Scouts’ Gay Ban: Should it Go?.
"As a former Cub Scout and Boy Scout and a GAY men [sic], everything i learned about Homosexuality, I learned in the SCOUTS."
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"...EVERYTHING i learned about Homosexuality, I learned in the SCOUTS."
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There you have it folks, Stephen 'became' a homosexual in the scouts from exposure to closeted homosexuals within the organization. Can you imagine if we admitted open homosexuals into the scouts, how the flood gates of homosexuality would permeate this 100 year old institution, seducing our sons just like what happened to Stephen?
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Thank you for that honest confession Mr Mccracken! Well of course you LEARNED EVERYTHING about homosexuality in the Scouts, thats because homosexuality 'IS' a learned condition and you were not 'born gay' as the adamant homosexual community would insist you believe. And you learned this behavior in the Scouts because why? There was a closeted gay troop leader that taught you, or maybe an assertive gay scout that slept in your tent? Exactly, this is precisely what the majority of this nation wants to prevent by disallowing the admittance of openly homosexuals into the Boy Scouts of America!
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There is no back-tracking on this Stephen, whether youre under the illusion that you were "born gay" or not, your learned everything about this aberrant behavior in the scouts. We're all thankful to Stephen McCracken that we now have that truth out in the open!

steve tenace: Good point!